When things fall apart, even some of the gangs will live in fear as well armed groups quickly try to expand turf or loot food / supplies. At that point, they are just another citizen fighting to keep the dirt beneath his feet. I honestly think its the unregulated teens or even ex-soldiers with urban combat training, no familes, no ties, and large caliber firepower we need to worry about as far as random acts of violence. Starvation will cause people to think and behave irrationally. Without something to keep your mind grounded you may quickly get absorbed into a violent group who like you, has nothing to lose. Those are the ones I worry about.

Honestly, organized crime syndicates have leadership and structure. While they come off a bit anti-law, gangland values and codes are held high. Respect that, because if you play in to it, it just might save your ass some day. Gangs, while ruthless to protect turf, business, or members, still follow that structure and hold certain values towards family, god, and country.

Post collapse, a gang of "Bloods" fighting to hold onto a few city blocks they all live on is NO different than a private citizen militia trying to hold down a couple of farms they live on out in rural Ks. Post collapse, we have more important sh!t to worry about than who is running coke or meth.

When it collapses, it will be a mess, and we shall quickly set aside or embrace ethical and racial divisions. This will either make or break our country. We have an opportunity to work with our neighbors and put aside generations of racial hatred, distrust, and contempt. The moment it crashes, we are all created equal.

Will there be some bad elements who rape, pillage, and murder? Yes... but who knows if it will be an army of gangsters, or an army of teens or ex military without families... without anything to lose.

Actually it's not the one on one or even the one on a car load that would worry me. Once in Laredo I was doing some work in a neighborhood where there was a police watch on the house of someone who had crossed a gang. One officer in a marked car across the street.

About a half dozen cars with three or four people each drove by and stopped in front of the house. A few including one huge dude walked to the front door (crossing a marked police line while the one officer on the scene watched and radioed for backup) while the others fanned out.

I was up the street and didn't have a good view, but another guy who was closer said the big guy splintered the door around the lock with his fist. (And it wasn't a light-weight door.) They didn't enter the house and the big guy walked up to the cop's car and "apologized" that he had knocked on the door a bit hard.

He was the last one in a car and they all cruised off.

I don't have any doubt there were probably warrants out for several of them. I'd bet several were felons carrying guns. And I'd bet there were a lot of illegally concealed weapons. They definitely crossed a marked police line and were trespassing.

The family that lived in the house was gone at the time. I suspect the gang that showed up knew it. And they made their point. The guy and his family just took off after they saw and heard what had happened.

We use to read about Bonnie and Clyde and Al Capone. The police and feds fought for years to bring law and order (of some sort) back in places like Chicago. I think a lot of people are in denial that in 50 years, history books may likely lump this period in with the other periods of lawlessness. I've done "ride alongs" as part of a job I use to have in Memphis, Chicago, and LA. LA was during the day and it was still scary in the Watts area. And south Memphis and south Chicago are bad news after dark.

But my two cents worth is that I avoid crossing paths with these guys. I don't go to their 'hood. I don't mess with their women. I don't hang out in their bars. I've an AK-47 with 5 30 round clips, an S&W M&P .40 with 4 15 round clips, a 12 gauge shotgun that will hold 5+1, and several lighter pieces. I could have it all ready and a days notice and I'd still probably try to be gone when they showed up instead of fight it out. The "live to fight another day" strategy seems like the best approach to these guys.

But to me, this is also one thing I like about being rural. I know at least a half dozen people in the area that would grab their bird gun and deer rifle and fight it out beside me if it came to it. And they aren't even particularly close friend. It's just way things are done. You help some bail their pasture when the rain is coming or help with a sick animal in the middle of the night. In someplace like Chicago, your neighbor is unarmed and helpless--they sure aren't going to stand beside you (and I really can blame them--I'm not into suicide missions myself).

Max