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Bug out, or stay in??

Discussions of sheltering in place and ways to do it
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:53 pm
BUG OUT THREATS FROM YOUR OWN GOV?

Source : Misc Survivalism Newsgroup: From: "The Rifleman" steve.day73@ntlworld.com

More and more of the survivalist /self reliance/ communities and groups are
considering a threat to their personal privacy and security is now in the hands of their own governments or global governmental organisations.( UN/WHO / Nato/ EU etc)

People are starting to question the intentions of these bodies as they introduce ever more intrusive laws involving monitoring of the population as it goes about its lawful daily business. Monitoring is the first step in controlling a populations freedom to move about freely. The usual excuses are to help detect and prevent crime, or to improve the flow of traffic. Its the definition of the phrase " criminal " that is worrying, no one is to worried if it helps track down shop lifters, or car jackers, but what if
its the state deciding it is people who are simply outspoken against the govt in question. Perhaps it could even be something like your government not wanting people to flee/ evacuate/ or bug out from the town in case it interferes with military or other traffic movements.

CCTV systems on roads, freeways, motorways etc are now in theory being becoming capable of tracking the individual movements of single vehicles from start to finish of the vehicles journey. Malls and other public places have surveillance systems that use computer programs that can identify and
name people from cctv stills if their details are stored on a database.

Britain is becoming notorious for its erosion of its citizens rights, from the failed attempts to reduce gun crime by stripping law abiding citizens of the right to own guns, to some of the blanket coverage anti terrorism laws that can just as easily be used to subjugate the population as well as its
fights terrorists. A few current example are the suggestion that all roads and highways right across the nation become toll roads charging vehicles automatically ever time they venture down any given route. They talk about black boxes compulsorily fitted to all vehicles that sent an ID code and pin number to these black boxes sited on every junction along the road network. Another option being actively considered is using similar back boxes linked to satellites to monitor the movements of every vehicle and charging them toll automatically at the end of each journey. If you think those two systems in themselves are bad enough but before they are even off the drawing boards the Police are saying they would like the systems linked together to the DVLC ( vehicle registration bureau) the police computer
network and the motorway camera system. In Britain at this very time if an ordinary cop on duty at an airport takes a dislike to you all he has to do is say he believes you MAY be a soccer hooligan preparing to travel abroad to cause trouble, if he does that he can seize your passport there and then stopping you from going overseas.

On a side note , It is very amusing to me that many Americans still think of Britain as a freedom loving democracy, So long as the US govt continues to support extremist governments then freedom will continue to die out) The paranoia coming from the aviation industry in response to the horrors
of 9 11 and Bali is understood, but some of the intrusive actions taken against legitimate and law abiding citizens is at the very least draconian. So where does this leave the survivalist in his plans to use his retreat / holiday home/ camping trailer etc, At the moment it is still fairly easily to drive from A to B without attracting undue attention or to be followed /monitored but it is getting harder.

Again using Britain as an example the City of London has so many CCTV cameras now that they authorities can follow any vehicle from one side to the other without a break in camera coverage, add this to the armed police checkpoints set up in response to IRA terrorism you can see how its
becoming harder for city dwellers to move about or bug out in secret, This gets worse because the underground is heaving with CCTV cameras and transport cops, the airports are almost no go areas for outdoors folk travelling with their kit. The M25 orbital motorway ( Like Washington's Beltway) that surrounds London is very well covered on all on and off ramps with cameras, the road is heavily patrolled, and their is usually lots of air cover as well. Many cities, towns and main highways in Britain and the US are covered completely by CCTV cameras and aviation monitors this in my mind is simply creating a high risk of being detected or captured by who ever wishes to spoil your day. Also do remember that the authorities are becoming very expert at quickly closing off all roads to and from the larger towns and cities. Where does this ever increasing level of surveillance leave the survivalist,
At the moment you can travel safely to and from your retreat or bug out location without duress, but how long will it be before the authorities can simply enter your personal or vehicle details into their database and get a record of your movements for the last month ( don't say it wont happen, govts introduce laws like this all the time under the fighting terrorism guise), Imagine the joy on their faces when the database shows your vehicle repeatedly stopping in some remote location for up to six hours before returning home, BINGO they know at least the vicinity of your retreat, you may vary your route but your destination is always your retreat, Then along comes the state and seizes your stuff.

What are your options? who knows I am certain that if the socialists in Europe ( and the democrats in the US ) got their collective ways they would microchip every citizen ( excluding themselves of course) but so far it has not got that bad . But it does leave the question of getting to your place of safety or your caches without detection, I personally believe in spreading my resources about so that if the bad guys raid my home then at least my caches or my retreat kit is still secure, but even though I use my rural home as my prime safe place I may need to get the hell out and move to one of my alternatives.

Motor vehicles so far are still fairly secure but as each day goes by the monitoring systems get better and the governments get more intrusive, So I plan my caches and hideaways along reasonably reachable foot path or bridle routes and waterways, I leave open the option of doing without echanised
or motorised transport, Maybe you folks may wish to consider using bicycles, horses, small boats, micro lights as auxiliary methods of bugging out they are going to be far harder for big brother to track. It is easy to cover 25 miles a day using bikes or horses and its easier to avoid detection or
attract unwanted attention. You can make thinks easier for yourself by pre-dispersing your survival assets in secure locations outside your town/ city limits. Please consider options for reaching safety without resorting to your vehicles or public transport, esp if its your own government you are trying to avoid.

:new:


PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:29 pm
We all heard the stories about people bugging-in in the face of Hurricane Ike. When they refused the evacuation orders.
What I've seen, was the people with preps did fine. The folks that were just stuborn and wouldn't leave and without preps,were on their cell phones the next day asking for help.
Like our member Lefty, was prepped and had the skill and knowledge to help his neighbors ( who is sounds like they were clueless).
Hope all our members have gained the knowledge and foresight to handle emergencies, from our idea sharing here.
So keep on prepping and gain useable knowledge.
.................................Alaskan...............Dennis..........

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:19 pm
Hello all/Responce to Alaskan

RON L here = SERE SURPLUS


Yup, Many good folks do Prep and that always helps! I didn't know our member Lefty was inthe Middle of that? I'm Glad he got through it all and I'm sure the Preps helped a lot? Most times, you can tell those that Preped from those that did not? The ones that did, have a mess and make do, the ones that didn't well, those are one ones seen on CNN with a Hand out and asking "WHO IS GONNA HELP US"? While it is easy to lose all your gear in a bad disaster, i've seen so many stories of folks digging inthe ruins and then they have the stuff they need to Move on and re-Build till they can do it right? Good on Him (Lefty and I'll send him a PM)! Thanks on the Responce!

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:43 pm
Yes the story's on C.N.N. and other networks make it clear of the un-prepared.. Lines miles long waiting for M.R.E.'s , water and ice.
If these folks had a prep mentality they be home taking care of their own.
They may be eating spam and canned beans, but they wouldn't be waiting for a gov. handout.
Oh, Spam and beans sound good. Better close now time for supper.
...............Alaskan......Dennis....

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:09 am
Hello all/Responce to Alaskan

RON L here = SERE SURPLUS



Thanks on the responce, OH, I so agree, I hated watcvhinbg news of the Katrina Disater, as many folks did leave, many folks that stayed did thier preps and they did make it, it was hard, it was messy and it was a long time,m what they didn't do is thand thier with the "Woe Is Me" Attitude and Look for a Constant hand out? It's an Afront to all the folks that did try hard, fix thier stiuff and got on with life? Thier are still Folks in NO looking for a hand out, as well as a lot in Lousiana! Contrast that to TX and Georgia and Florida that also got damage and get it often? Do your best, do it BEFORE HAND and when it happens do what Ya have to! Thats the way i see it? I was not here i WV in 85, these folks had a lot of damge and ruined homes due to Flood waters and storms, know what they got? A Bucket, a MOP and some Bleach and Anhiser Bush handed out free canned water! Compare that tyo Debit cards in ktrina and folks collecting Thousands on Property yhey did not own, filed under up to 5 names and one woman was jailed as her Name and SSN were looped back to 12 other ID' s? Never UNDERESTIMATE THE LOOTERS GREED?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:49 pm
You made me think of a guy they caught in Anchorage , after Katrina.
He still had a LA. drivers license and said he fled during Katrina.
He collected a lot of money from the powers that be.
Turned out he had been in Anchorage and working for 3 months be for Katrina stuck.
The Feds would not prosecute him. ..
If I walked away from a parking ticket I'd be going to court....Dennis

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:13 pm
HELLO ALL/RESPONCE TO ALASKAN

RON L HERE = SERE SURPLUS

Thanks on the great reasonce, while I feel at times I'm Too Tough on Folks coming out of Kartina, all the Documented cases of Fraud, the general Overall attitude of "What ya got for me", coupled with Folks TRUE GENEROCITY PISSes ME OFF? I have a good friend here, whose neighbors went m,issing around the time of Katrina and we all joked that they went to try and collect Money onthe diaster, I was thinking free debit cards and all, Turns out there went doewn as UNLICENCED CONTRACTORS and BILKED FOLKS OUT OF Thousands of Dollars on Makeshift repairs, the Feds can't touch them, they did the work and split and no one can prove who they were as most as done in Cash and mateials? The Petty Nature of what my Fellow man is wiling to stupe to is only Conqured by the real Folks that went to help, and never asked for a dime?

I agree the Guy you have theier in Alaska has a bad case of Karma headed his way and Same with the Big Woman in NO with the 12 Alis Names and Debit cards, they pled it down to ID theft and she got Probation (NON-VOLIENT CRIME) ya know? I hope a special place in hell awaits folks lie that!


PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:05 pm
stay, snipe threats as needed. establish close ties with surrounding.
post signs if/when shtf.

example
*posted, 24/7 sniper sentry is watching*
leave a note. come back in 6 hours for reply.* any persons who come 10 paces further will be shot.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:21 pm
DESIGNATEDMARKSMAN wrote:stay, snipe threats as needed. establish close ties with surrounding.
post signs if/when shtf.

example
*posted, 24/7 sniper sentry is watching*
leave a note. come back in 6 hours for reply.* any persons who come 10 paces further will be shot.



Damn good idea, i
have to say :gs:
"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.. Thomas Jefferson

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:07 pm
DESIGNATEDMARKSMAN wrote:stay, snipe threats as needed. establish close ties with surrounding.
post signs if/when shtf.

example
*posted, 24/7 sniper sentry is watching*
leave a note. come back in 6 hours for reply.* any persons who come 10 paces further will be shot.



Actually had that idea not too long ago, makes a lot of sense.
"Tell the Truth, know the escape routes and carry extra ammunition" Georgia Mason in the novel "FEED"

"If you have to shoot, shoot. Don’t talk." -Tuco

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