I'll probably be Bugging Out. I'm not sure where to quite yet, but I hear Ohio is nice.

[quote="buffalo"][quote]To BI or not to BI, that is the question"
Bugging In:
Pros:
1. You know the area.
2. Its easy to prepare since that is where you are located.
3. Its easy to protect supplies since you are there.
4. Its easy to get there, since you are there already.
Cons:
1. It may be a little populated. (City or urban area)
2. Its hard to live around supplies everyday.
3. Your wife and kids may eat the supplies as snacks.
4. Its hard to install wells and windmills and solar panels without notice.
5. Neighbors may come knocking WSHTF.[/quote]

I would chose to bug in, at my age 68 and over 40 yrs here, I'm not about to leave, althou my age wouldn't be a factor, i can still snake logs with a team, carry 80 pound sacks of concrete,cut and split wood, service all the vechiles and do the brake jobs.about the only crises that could stir things up here would be a full blown depression with no oil,gas..
We don't have to worry about earthquakes, tornadoes ,hurricanes,typhoons, poison snakes,alligators,scorpions,
or anything else that other parts of the country do, it does get cold here and snows but we just put another log on the fire, eventually it'll warm up and the snow will melt(we hope). any of the above could happen, but not likely, there are rattlers and copperheads in all dirrections from us, but at least 8 miles away.

one thing that i've never seen mentioned is in a bug in situation, a person should have an outside toilet inside because water could be a real problem for flushing toilets after a week. there is a creek across the rd from my house and a spring that runs out of the hill 50 ft in back of my house, but we may not be able to get to the water. my wife thinks i'm nuts but i've talked about putting one in a corner of the basement, like the porta-potties you rent only homemade out of wood so it could be broke down and the waist took out when the coast is clear, have the waist drop into a wood box on skids so it could be slid to the door and outside, dumped in a hole, covered and the box brought back in. even a dozen USG buckets with tight lids would be ok. keep a few hundred pounds of lime by the potty so when it is used, a cup full of lime can be tossed on the waist, helps keep the stink down, plus an 1-1/2 pvc leading to the outside from the potty.
i think a person should be prepared to stay inside at least 21 days.[/quote]


May I suggest a composting toilet. They are easy to install, can be ventilated to the outside and the compost can be used on the garden or yard. They aren't too expensive but is an option.

Regards,
Bill

Good idea Bill.

I did not mention it since I have an alternative water source to keep the toilets flushing and I am on a septic system, so no fears there. But I do have a portapotty from my camping stuff.

Depends on the situation if possible bug in my Mom is 82 years old and has had a massive stroke so bugging out is not my first choice.

Like most of you, I have given the question of bugging out or in considerable thought. With the exception of those fortunate enough to have secure places in secluded areas, the answer for most of us is probably less clear and unique to the variables of our individual lives.

After careful consideration and in line with my unique circumstances, I have decided to initially bug in. I live in a small suburb of 35,000 that consistently places in the top 10 of Money Magazine's "Best Places to Live" (not that that in and of itself matters, but it gives an idea of demographics and low rental-to-homeowner rates). The town is not directly connected to any other towns and is fifteen miles from the nearest interstate. I happen to live five minutes from a lake used for municipal drinking water and am surrounded by Kudzu (which is edible), squirrels, deer, etc. I have a monolith water filter (in fact, I have operated water treatment facilities) and many sterilized #1 PET bottles for SODIS. The availability of water alone makes bugging in appealing. There is also an ample supply of wood for fires. We happen to have a basement wherein we have hidden a good sized stash of food behind wallboard on one of the walls.

As we are thirty minutes from Atlanta, however, I foresee the possibility of roaming gangs coming from there. We have spent considerable money on arms and ammunition and possess two Remmy 870 12 gauges in homemade "riot" configuration, a SKS, three Springfield XD 9mm, three Hi-point 995 9mm carbines and a bunch of varmint guns -- all with a solid amount of ammo. However, as there are but three of us (wife, son, myself), I do not foresee us viably fighting off gangs. As has been noted by many, defending a static position never works. But what if we don't defend it, but rather appear to be as bad off as everybody else -- eating Kudzu and drinking water from the lake shouldn't incite too much notice, as anybody would be able to do the same. Our stash of preps would remain hidden and discretely used. Perhaps if a gang or even locals want to take a look in the house, we bug out the back into the woods and let them poke around. Perhaps if the place looks exactly like the other homes they've searched and found nothing in, they will move on. After the herd has thinned, so to speak, we can then assess whether or not it is wise to consider a move to a more remote location.

Have any of you considered this sort of "hide in plain sight" approach?

Regards

However, as there are but three of us (wife, son, myself), I do not foresee us viably fighting off gangs. As has been noted by many, defending a static position never works.

The groups of gangs themselves will roam around in groups of 2 -4, they'll be armed with something probably stolen and that they have no experience with. Go pick yourself up a nice .308 or larger and practice with this gun. you will be able to hit a man sized target from 700 yards and I doubt that they will be able to return accurate fire without coming closer and exposing themselves even more.

Have any of you considered this sort of "hide in plain sight" approach?

Depands how dire the situation gets, with the collapse of law we will definitely see rapings and beatings, if you have anything on you they'll bash or kill you for it, a nice watch or ring, a necklace, a firearm or knife or even a pair of shoes. and god knows that if there is no food at all and in a group there is a weaker person in the group the threat of cannibalism is high. during world war two there was a lot of cannibalism between the Japanese troops eating the bodies of the fallen Japanese and Australian troups during the Siege of Leningrad and even more recent in 1996 cannibalism was practiced in North Korea. I beleive and hope that we are to civilised now in Western culture to resort to cannibalism but in dire situations people will resort to dire things.

The single biggest issue with bugging-in is fire, standard wood structure homes are very easy to firebomb and therefore they are a death trap, you need to have a bug out plan and a means to get out with enough supplies to last you and your family for several weeks. If you have an elderly or infirm family member you have to come to a decision, one that will be distasteful, it is better to loose one family member than compromise the entire family. These choices will be difficult; I suggest that you at least consider the possibility now.

I suggest anyone who is planning on bugging out, take weekend drives or vacations and cover the areas you planning to bug out through. If there are big events going on in the areas your going through at times, travel through it at that time to see where the choke and problem points will be (you think your bugging out alone, but so are another 150 million people, at least).
Get Geo Survey maps of the ares your plannign on going through, check if the maps have the areas right (lots of changes can happen between map updates). What are the roads like, are there more then one way through, are there fire trails you can take instead, what are the areas like during bad weather, where are gas and facilities areas (They will be packed, count on it).
I think people in Houston and those of us in Texas got a good idea what a bug out will be like on the mild side, when Houston was evacuated a few years ago. Million moving North, East, and West to get out of town. Ask them what they found to be problems faced during that time, and remember that it was with the full police and military support during a mandatory evacuation, not everyone deciding to get out without highways set up for it and many lawless actions occurring, because the LEO are not there to keep watch.
As it was, there were road blockings from cars breaking down, deaths occurred through accidents and medical problems, gas stations out of fuel, shortages of water, supplies, etc. It that happened during an "orderly evactuation" with full support fot eh government, think about what will it be like with so many thinking of everyman or woman for themselevs, without LEO or military support?

If you need a list and map for PAW scavenging,keep a current phone book.It has an alphabetised list of buisness in the yellow pages,and usually a very detailed and updated street annex map of the area that also shows wildlife areas,parks,and waterways.Matt

TigerPaws wrote:The single biggest issue with bugging-in is fire

I could not agree with you more. A single propane tank set up against the wall of a house, with the valve left open for a bit and then a spark. Kaboom! No ordinance required. And after the boom no nasty occupants to deal with as they will be knocked silly or dead... BI can be dangerous if you have smart people looking to get your stuff.