Whether you are bugging in, or bugging out, one thing you need to take into consideration is government strong points.

In the case of the military, they will first secure their facilities and personnel, then they will be called in to support local governments in the case of major unrest and shtf. Once they have been called in, they will want to secure their transportation routes to major cities if they are not collocated. For example, Ft. Bragg is 50 miles from Raleigh/Durham. Their two main transportation routes will be US-1 and RT-401, one running West of me, the other running East.

This brings up questions, will they just secure those two corridors? Or will they want to close the gap between them so that they are only facing two fronts, instead of four? Will they attempt to sanitize everything in between the two? Also, as there is a nuclear power plant in that zone, they will want to beef up the security there as well. How large a security bubble will they create around it?

What will they consider to be “sanitized?” Will it just be light patrols unless there are problems? Will they attempt to confiscate all weapons? Or will they forcibly remove all civilians in that zone? Will they just secure the towns and transportation intersections?

So, now I need to figure out how to plan for such an eventuality as we have never planned on a bug out unless it was a nuclear plant melt down. But if you are planning on bugging out, how will those security messures effect your BO route planning? Will you have to cross a military security zone to get to where you need? What are the risks of having weapons confiscated?

This can also be a consideration if you hav to go through a major metro area, or even a smallish town where the Mayor is getting a chance to use that APC and battle gear that DHS so thoughtfully provided.

My military experience does not cover the SOPs for this type of situation. So I don’t really know what they are going to do. So, I’m interested in the thoughts of others.

That is some good thinkin' - and New, too.

I'll bet it depends a lot on how "Deep" the Societal Failure becomes - if it is Mild, I'll bet the MilTypes just secure their Installations, and have Convoys to resupply, with minimal "Clearing out" of Routes. If Turly "Deep" Collapse, they will keep to the Installations they can secure, IF they have enough remaining troops.

I really can't conceive of our Mainline troops Manning/Enforcing a nationwide Martial Law.

If you ain't in their way, and you don't garner their attentions, I would think you would be unaffected by whatever missions they are on at that time.

Grey Man Concept, My Friend.

Fortunately for me, I am way out of their way where I am, and the one Point of Infrastructure they might want to secure (Mainline Toll-Bridge) is pretty much not necessary for me to use.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FE ... 3sep04.htm -- Attached is a tid bit of info that might be of interest in those that are going to different locals. I fully agree with Lonehawk in the above. As stated i HP's post Setting a Standard or --- regarding who is in the better shape and who is not, a leader must consider what will the the ultimate outcome if he leaves a group behind, goods and ammo or the essentials behind.

When leaving to go elsewhere is and does one have prepositioned rations, and other items to sustain the lead group while the other is enroute. For me, if I leave to my place I will be passing thru 14 different towns, villages and not to mention small groups that have the sole intent of taking, killing and rapeing. As a Marine of 21 yrs I concur with HP on rapid movement but the mission was to take, kill on the way, secure a position then move up thereon securing the whole area.

As one travels to and from the grocery, neighbors, famiy look around and ponder what they will do when The SHTF. Are they prepared- probably not, will they gather in groups - probably so,

There is no real time solution to what will take place and believe me, the groups on this forum, I assume are well prepared as I my friend. Gentleman it is not going to be pretty during the first few weeks or months of this crisis. There will be killings, lootings, sleep lost, families seperated and I could go on and on. All of us are in the same boat trying to find the right person, group or faction to hook up with. It is not gonna be easy. Many times I against the wall wondering where to go for a safe secure location - there is none.

Just rambling thoughts to get ya thinking.

I live near JBLM and there are huge numbers of family members off post, retirees and their families, folks who work on post, and former military that the post is an extension of the communities. This runs from Steilacoom and Lakewood down to Lacey and extends to Puyallup, South Hill and other communities. Not too far North are Naval Installations including nuclear sites so you know that short of a nuclear blast, they'll be intact as well, so that puts tens of thousands more active service men and women, dependents, employees, retirees and former military up there. This all is just a collection of names to people in other regions, but it illustrates a point...beyond the post is a related community.

There will be pressure to help those communities from the post and often there will be the wonderful continual reminders of servicemen in key positions bringing up the need to help the infrastructure.

Beyond that, when Watertown NY got hit hard, the post was pretty much shut down, and individually, I was among active duty and former military and regular citizens restoring order, given the go ahead by the acting commander. In that situation, given more time and the request, they'd have had units out helping. Now days, such a thing is more common.

It's good to be near a military post. There's more training in Civil Affairs and there are many thousands of service men and women who have actually done it.

I am, if nothing else, and optimistic pessimist. I hope for the best, and expect the worst. I am rarely disappointed.

Grim,

I whole heartedly agree that the communities surrounding our military bases will do fairly well.

But I guess I was thinking in terms of currently expected worst case scenario. That the progressives are successful.

The progressives in charge in DC want chaos, from out of chaos comes change. So, they want it to be as painful as possible so that the citizens will cry out for DC to do something and take charge. And with the current leadership in many states, as well as in DC, they consider us vets to be a danger. Along with a long list of other patriots where having a “Don’t tread on me” bumper sticker could get you “detained.” Yeah, I can take those off, but I’m already on the list because I have VFW plates.

We have a whole lot of our troops deployed, and they are getting us entangled in other “kinetic actions” at a disturbing rate. I believe that these actions, along with repeal of don’t ask, don’t tell, they are doing everything that they can to break the back of the military.

I also anticipate that they will shift troops around the country so that they will be “policing” areas that are not their home turf. Troops/units from NY will find themselves in AZ. This will lesson their resistance to following orders that normally, they wouldn’t.

So, the question still remains. What is the SOP for securing supply lines through “hostile” territory, and what can we expect in a worst case scenario? One with maybe UN troops doing the “policing.” Or maybe the Russians or the Chinese?

The notion of UN troops coming in here and using force beyond giving aid after a disaster is very remote. (Other than providing assistance in an immediate area, following a massive disaster-yes, there were unarmed or lightly armed Mexican Army troops involved with boots on the ground after Katrina, and we go in regularly following disasters world wide...such intervention is welcome.)

The idea of Russian or Chinese troops coming into America in force, armed and 'policing' the US population is just plain silly, even with Obama, a rampant multinational as President and by any stretch of the imagination. We have many segments to our population, but there are too many similarities. Taking a brigade from Ft. Lewis and putting them near Ft. Bragg, and taking a Brigade from Ft. Bragg and putting them near Ft. Lewis is probably going to give you a pretty similar mix of soldiers, same racial mix, same mix from regions. This isn't like the Romans shifting their Sythian Auxillaries to Gaul or Hadrian's Line and even then, they got into their populations. It's definitely not like the Soviets throwing their Siberian Motorized Rifle Regiments into Budapest to quell things. For American servicemen and women, the United States is their home turf. We don't have Regiments purely from one state! Get real!

Worrying about a Red Dawn scenario is more remote than worrying about an Invasion by Gray Aliens, it's adolescent fantasy and nonsense.

We don't need to worry about military, ours or others, unless you're a problem like some fool rioters, looters or anarchists, the same group, law abiding individuals need to be concerned about.

I think it's bad when people who know nothing about the military make wrong assumptions.

Grim,

Thanks for berating me on my ignorance on military matters seeing that I have six years active duty Navy, an AFE for being on the ground on Grenada, and a NAM. I also spent 18 months in El Salvador, Nicoraqua, Honduras, and Guatamla, also on the ground. Ok, I was a spook, not a grunt. You think combat was exciting for you? Try it in dungeries unarmed when everyone else was armed wearing tree suits. So I did what I could and helped the medic and held battle dressings while he worked and ducked when necessary. Now that you have let me know how little I know about ground pounders like you, would you now like to answer the question? I clearly said, "worst case scenario." Not "most likely scenario." The last time I asked a ground pounder for advice in combat his best answer was duck. I hoped your answer would be better.

And this extensive military experience involved dealing with the Chinese and Russian army invasion of the United States?

Well gee...Yes, I'm going to berate that notion. I will continue to ridicule the notion of us waking up to find Red Dawn reality and that being a priority right now in our preps.

Did the rest of us sleep through that experience? This is right up there with those silly posts a while ago about this tremendous Chinese Army armored vehicle build up on a very tiny bit of Mexican turf that was a thread here months ago. That had like one third of all of the Chinese People's Army APC's in a tiny perimeter, staged for an invasion of the US, and the troops there being fed by one American semi driven by an American truck driver who they let stand there and count the APC's!


How in the heck does the comment:

"I also spent 18 months in El Salvador, Nicoraqua, Honduras, and Guatamla" relate to being concerned about the suddenly overwhelming use of military force on the average American, and where the heck are 'Nicoraqua' and 'Guatamla'? I think I can spell the name of any country I visited during my time in the military, and if I couldn't, I think that any opinion I have regarding that experience should be justifiably suspect.


For those who didn't serve in the military, one odd thing-most 'spooks' or operatives I've run across are hardly likely to bring it up as a credibility point in a silly Internet disagreement, they'd be amused rather than angry...this is within my limited and uninteresting experiences in the Marines and Army.

I'm pretty sure that the 'spooks' I met could spell Nicaragua and Guatemala as well, if assigned in special ops there as they're usually pretty sharp fellows, tending toward precise language use and they do read and use maps, and OP ORDERS, and Status of Forces Agreements, etc., enough to know how to spell the names of countries they've operated within.

Grim,

I'm tired, and spent a hot day working in the yard. I will be happy to email you a scanned copy of my DD-214. If you call me a liar and a wanna-be again, a stong message will follow off-line.

The question is, if you will recall, is what level measures could be expected along supply corridors in the event that the military is used as security forces in cities. Let us try to seperate your fiction writings, which I enjoy by the way, from the question. IF the military was ordered to provide security support to a city, and IF they complied, what level of sanitization of the area along the transit zone could be expected. If your not willing to answer the question, say so. Are you willing to provide a copy of your DD-214?

Oh, and Grim, I was not assigned to special ops. I found my ass there when I wasn't supposed to be. I guess it was just the Navy Fairy God Mother that kept sending me places I thought I was never supposed to go.

I appologize for my heated reply, but damnit, I was asking a question. I'm not a trained combat troop. I was a squid who was never supposed to be any of the places I found myself. Thank God they train our sailors better today than they did me.