SOLAR COOKER [top]

From: <Sclare27@aol.com>

Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 16:01:21 EDT

<< Another issue to address is the amount of time it takes to cook dried beans. A LONG time! >>

A great solution is a solar cooker. I have just put the finishing touches on mine, made completely from things I had on hand...cardboard boxes, aluminum foil, newspaper and a piece of glass I got from an old picture frame. Needs no fuel, except a sunny day, and will work summer and winter.

At first I was disbelieving that it would work, but I was reminded of how you can start a fire with a magnifying glass and the sun's rays. The sun is amazing!! This particular cooker is supposed to be able to even bake bread, which is at about 450 degrees. Beans will take 3-4 hours, depending on the sun.

Missionaries have developed these little wonders so that people in third world countries don't destroy their greatest economic asset (their forests) for cooking fuel. There is also the added benefit of no smoke/ashes/exhaust to deal with.

Tomorrow is the test drive...we are having "solar day" at the office. I will be cooking pot roast in the solar oven, which we will position down in the parking lot. After an impressive demonstration people may be jazzed about making one for themselves. Looking forward to a "solar cooker" party, where we can all make them together...B.Y.O.C.B. (bring your own cardboard boxes.)

I think I saw a link to a solar cooking site once, but if anyone wants these plans, I will be happy to post them.

The one we made and use is http://www.accessone.com/~sbcn/minimum.htm The "Minimum" Solar BoxCooker. You can also check out these http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~ccat/sub/slinks.html Solar cooking links A very simple, inexpensive and effective design for solar ovens can be found in both the Brownie and Junior Girl Scout handbooks.

If you can locate both current, and older handbooks for both Girl Scouting and Boy Scouting, you'll be pleasantly surprised at the resources contained in them that will be useful to anyone looking to become self-sufficient.

Here are some solar cooker sites:

http://www.accessone.com/~sbcn/minimum.htm

http://www.accessone.com/~sbcn/easylid.htm

http://www.eren.doe.gov/solarnow/activ_3.htm

http://www.accessone.com/~sbcn/cookit.htm

http://www.accessone.com/~sbcn/newpanel.htm



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BREAD AND FLOUR [top]

Sam's Club sells 25 lb. containers of baker's flour in heavy paper bags for about $4.50. This amounts to 18 cents a pound or 18 cents a loaf for the flour. Shelf life is shorter under these packaging conditions though.

You can store white flour in a galvanized garbage can with bay leaves in it to discourage the 6-legged brethren 'n sistren. <g> You may also want to consider adding some soy flour to your bread and instant nonfat dried milk. By doing this you are providing a protein/carbo complete meal! Especially with little kids this is so important. I've begun baking this "Cornell" Bread and we are eating this exclusively for two weeks now. I have six kids (2-15) and they all love it. The aroma is incredible. French toast is yummy!! I also am adding wheat germ or a proportion of whole wheat flour.

Here is the recipe.

Place in a large mixing bowl and let stand:

3 cups of warm water

2 pkges or 2 Tbs. of active dry yeast

2 Tbs. honey

2 Tbs. oil

3 tsp. sea salt

In separate container ( I use a big Tupperware, measure then shake!)

6 cups unbleached flour

2 cups whole wheat flour

1 cup full-fat soy flour

1 cup non-fat dry milk

Stir the liquids and add 1/2 to 3/4 of flour mixture. Beat vigorously. Add remaining flour. Work with hands till its ready to knead. Knead for 5 minutes or so. Place in an oiled bowl and rub little oil on top. Let rise in a warm place till double in size (1-3 hours - test by seeing if fingerprint remains in dough). Punch down, fold over edges, turn upside down to rise for another 20-30 min. (test again). Turn onto board, divide into 3 portions. Let rest 10 minutes. Make 3 loaves. Place in oiled pans. (81/2 x 41/2 x 21/2). Let rise till double (45 min). Bake at 350 for 45-60 minutes. Check doneness by tapping bottom of loaf - if it sounds hollow its done.

Now....about the Dutch Oven baking. [top]

This recipe will work in two 12" ovens. Just form into two round loaves and place in greased oven for final rising. When it "ALMOST" doubles its time to bake. Bake with both top and bottom heat for 2/3's of the time and finish with only top heat. So for 350 degrees that's 17 coals on the top and 8 on the bottom. Since it takes about 45 minutes, after 30 minute take oven off bottom heat and continue with only top heat. Rotate oven every 15 min 1/4 turn for that first 30 minutes and for the final 15 minutes check to see if bread is evenly browning. Adjust coal position accordingly.

For more detailed info and recipes there are two books I'm using for help.

The Cornell Bread Book (I got this from Lehmans) by Clive M. McCay and JeanetteB. McCay

Lovin' Dutch Ovens by Joan Larsen. I got this book from Chuckwagon Supply (along with my ovens)

http://chuckwagonsupply.com/

For the outdoor brick oven plans see:

http://shell10.ba.best.com/~ovncraft/

Also The Bread Book by Thom Leonard

Both The Bread Book and The Cornell Bread Book can be gotten from Lehmans. Lehmans 330-857-5757.



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BEER SOURDOUGH FOR BREAD [top]

Mix one can of beer with one cup of flour. Stir and cover lightly and let sit on the counter for few days till its got that great sour smell. Stir it a few times a day while its sitting. Then refrigerate and use in any recipe.

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SEVERAL GUYS' SHOPPING LISTS [top]

[I combined several lists here, so there's a lot of duplication. Never mind: it's still useful to scan through and make sure you didn't completely forget something important.]

Food:

Dried beans, peas, and lentils

6 cases Power Bars/Survival Bars

Rice, Pasta

Peanut Butter

Powdered Juices, Gatorade, Iced Tea, Milk, Cocoa

Powdered/condensed milk, cheese

Canned/Dehydrated Fruit, Vegetables, Meats, Tuna

Flour

Vegetable Oil/Lard

Spices, Salt, Pepper

Whole Grains (Corn, Barley, Millet)

Sugar

Multi-vitamin/minerals - you can buy now with expiration dates of 01.



Seeds for Gardening:

Eggplant, Tomato, Green Pepper, Squash, Spinach, Lettuce, Green Beans,

Radishes



Herbs to grow indoors in a sunny window:

Basil, Parsley, Oregano



Toiletries:

Soap, Shampoo, Toothbrushes, Toothpaste, Fluoride Rinse, Deodorant,

Disposable Razors, Combs, Hair Brush, Sanitary Pads (good as pressure

bandages), OTC pain relievers and medications you use now.



Warm, Waterproof, Windproof clothing. Think wool, Gore-Tex, Thinsulate,

Polarfleece. Spare pairs of shoes/boots, gloves, hats, socks,

underwear. Lots of that stuff is on sale now that it's summer time. If

the power goes out in January lots of people will be cold.



Equipment:

Some type of water filtration/purification and storage system. I'm

using a Katadyne(tm) water filter/purifier.

Can Opener

Food-Grade Airtight Containers

Camp stove and Coleman Fuel (White Gas)

Meat Grinder

HD Aluminum Foil, Oven Roasting Bags, Dutch Oven

Solar Oven, Solar Water Still

Hammer, Roofing Nails, Wood Screws

Hacksaw, Blades, Wood Saw

Hatchet, Chisel/Wedge

3' Crow Bar, 10" Wire Cutters

Good sledge hammer (short handle)

Tow Chain/Straps

24" or 30" Bolt Cutters

CO Detector, Smoke Detector, ABC Fire Extinguisher (2)

Duct/100 MPH Tape

Thick, clear plastic to repair/insulate windows

Sewing materials (needles, thread, patches, fabric)

Solar Lights

Paper, Pens, Pencils

Medical/First Aid Kit

Candles, Matches

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AND..PAPER GOODS



Toilet Paper

Kleenex

Dinner Plates

Napkins

Plastic knives, forks, spoons

Reynolds Wrap Foil

Ziploc Bags - Sandwich

Ziploc Bags - Storage

Rubber dish gloves

Latex disposable gloves

Paper cups



PERSONAL HYGIENE



Soap Bars

Liquid Hand Soap

Liquid Hair Shampoo (Adult)

Liquid Hair Shampoo (Child)

Toothbrushes - Adult - Child

Toothpaste

Dental Floss

Deodorant - Mens - Womens

Shaving Blades - Womens - Mens

Shaving Cream

Mouthwash

Astringent



MEDICINE



First Aid book

First Aid Kit

Cough Drops

Aspirin: Adult - Children's

Pepto Bismol

Cold & Allergy

Feminine supplies

Peroxide

Alcohol

Kaopectate

Prescription Drug supply

Vitamins



Coleman metal dinner plates (to hold cheap paper plates)

Dutch Oven

Grain Mill (non electric)

Dish soap

Hot pad holders

Clothes soap

Various food spices

Scrub pads

Thermos (wide mouth type for cooking food)

Electrolytes



TOOLS/EQUIPMENT



Gas Cans

Rubber Mallet

Hammer

Nails

2 cycle oil (if you have a chainsaw)

Stabil gas treatment

Shovels

Wood saws

Work gloves

Wood Axes - Large - Small

Pry Bars - Large - Small

Rope

Heavy duty bolt cutters (just in case)



HEAT/LIGHT



Propane Tanks

Coleman lantern

Coleman stove or backyard BBQ

Coleman lantern mantles

Butane lighters

Flashlights w/batteries

Flashlight bulbs

Candles - 7 day type

Matches - Stick type

Sterno cooking fuel cans

Bags of charcoal

Charcoal Starter tube

Lamps - Aladdin kerosene type

Kerosene

Gasoline

Generator (if you want to use this)

Newspapers for starting fire



MISCELLANEOUS



Wind up or solar type radio

Water buckets

Clothes washing buckets - 15 gallon galvanized type

Metal bucket - for charcoals/ashes

Clothesline



Washboard - for clothes

Clothes Wringer (hand crank)

Clothespins

Bicycle tube repair kit

Bicycle tube (spare)

Bicycle tube hand air pump

Bike rack for carrying supplies

Tire pressure gauge

Disinfectant/Cleaner

Sponges

Watering can - (for do-it-yourself shower)

5 gallon paint bucket w/lid - emergency toilet

Trash bags - 33 gallon size

Trash bags - 13 gallon size (for toilet bucket)

Toilet seat

Ant spray concentrate

Sprayer/Pumper - 2 gallon size

Portable push vacuum

Fire extinguishers)



WATER



Bleach - 1 gallon (5.25%) - to purify water (4 drops/qt. - 2

teaspoons/10 gal - =BC cup/55)

Children's pool - rigid wall type - 6 ft. diameter =3D 200 gallons (for

washing)

Pool water testing kit

Water chlorinating granules (for pool)

Pool tarp - 11 x 16 ft.

Water can - 5 gallon size

Water bag (collapsible) - 5 gallon size

Water/gas funnels

Water Filter

55 gallon water drums (for drinking)

Water pump for drums (hand type)

http://www.justpeace.org/nuggetsindex.htm

EATING DANDELIONS TOP

1. Did we eat the flowers....YES, the bigger the flower the better. You want to get them early in the spring.

2. I did not eat the greens but my neighbor did and says the fresh tender spring greens are best....they get bitter the longer they grow.

3. I don't know about using the leaves for tea....all the medicinal herb books I have say to use the fresh or dried root for tea.

4. Yes, you can cook the greens. The Southern way is to wilt them in bacon grease...I would just saut them in butter or oil and garlic.

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WILD ONIONS TOP

In regards to those wild onions....I use to use the greens all the time in TN. Sometimes they were all over our yard. I even transplanted them in a patch close to the house for cutting so dear hubby didn't mow over my ready supply. The bulb is quite strong in flavor but great for soups, stews and chilies....a little bulb goes a long way

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QUICK & EASY GREENHOUSE TOP

You get 16' concrete rebar, stick one end into the ground, and bend it over and stick it into the ground 12' away... make these hoops until you have it long enough for the size greenhouse you want, cover with clear plastic, and VOILA! Instant greenhouse! it WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO STOCK UP ON BOTH CLEAR PLASTIC AND BLACK PLASTIC, FOR GARDENING PURPOSES POST-Y2K.

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FREE INTERNET CLASSIFIED ADS TOP

I just wanted to let everyone know that I have just begun hosting a free classified ad page for anyone(no porn, etc.) to advertise businesses, land, or whatever they wish. I hope this is very useful to many people. You can find them at

http://rodweb.localweb.com/classads/sites/1104723.htm



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FREE PLASTIC BUCKETS TOP

I have been getting free plastic buckets with rubber seals from our local grocery bakery dept. We use these buckets and other food grade buckets and the slight odor never affects our grains at all.



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FLOWERS BUT NO TOMATOES TOP

You might try mulching heavy or find some way to keep them cooler. Tomato pollen won't work right over about 92 degrees so you get no tomatoes. If you want a real good crop, just go out and occasionally "thump" the plants when they are blooming. Not hard, just enough to make the pollen dislodge. (Maybe "tapping" is a better word When I do this, the tomatoes line up like grapes in a bunch.

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O2 ABSORBERS TOP

You can get the 02 absorber at the Mormon Bishops' storehouses for $8 per 100.

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HOW TO SELL YOUR HOME TOP

From: withopeinhim@juno.com (Donald J. Cassidy)

I am reading W. Effros book, "How to Sell Your Home in 5 Days". It is so interesting. We are wondering how many of you have used his plan and your outcome. It seems pretty scary to carry it out, although he says the seller is always in control. How did it pan out for you all ? Did you really get 40 families for the inspection ? Did you set your price LOW and have bidding wars to up the price ? Did you sell your house Sunday night ? Did you get the price you wanted ? Any regrets ? Please feel free to email me privately if this isn't appropriate for the digest.

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ALTERNATIVE POWER EXPLAINED TOP

I came across an interesting on-line catalog which actually has factual, explanatory material on alternative power sources: wind, solar, and water. The prices seem very high to me (I have found some of their products elsewhere for a lot less money), BUT the information is free and seems pretty comprehensive given the limitations of length.

http://www.realgoods.com/renew/cat/intro/pv.htm

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HOW TO HOOK UP A GENERATOR TO YOUR HOUSEHOLD ELECTRIC SYSTEM TOP

From: Frank Trozzo <Pearl@CITCOM.NET>

I've been generating now for about four years, mostly for convenience knowing that it would only be a matter of a day or two before the power returned. SO I would like to share some info as to how to hook up a system. It can be very confusing and cause more problems as well as electrical accidents. Several important issues need to be addressed.



Power Requirements

Look into your fuse box for the largest size breaker. AC units are usually the largest at 40 amps. Well pump 20 or 30 amps. Dryer 20 amps, Stove maybe 30 amps. Examine all your circuits and clearly label them. Write down all the breaker sizes and what they supply.

A 20 amp, 220 volt breaker that runs a well pump for instance requires 4,400 watts or 4 kilowatts (kW). 20 x 220 A 20 amp, 110 volt breaker that maybe runs a refrigerator requires 2,200 watts. etc. etc. etc.

If you are on well water, the 5 kW generator will run the well pump alone, but if you have electric water heater with a 30 amp breaker, you'll need 6,600 watts. A 5 kW generator will barely do the job. You need at least a 10 kW generator if you're an electric household. Same goes for heat pumps usually requiring 8,800 watts. 10 kW units are very expensive, $5,000 and up.

If you're on gas, you can do it with a 5kW unit and will be able to run all your appliances one at a time. A gas furnace only needs about 2,200 watts to run its blower motor, so you can have heat no sweat. A gas water heater needs no power, you only have to run your well pump to have a hot shower.

The main deal here is to establish your needs and determine how many watts you need to run at any one time, to establish the generator size.

A standard Coleman or DeVilbiss 5kW unit with a seven gallon tank is available for $500. If you want electric start plan on $1500 and up.

HOOK UP -

Herein lies a problem. Utility companies and building codes require a fail safe switching device to go between the generator and the power panel. Guess how much? $250 + $250 to install !!! You just doubled your cost. UNLESS you know how to backfeed you power panel safely and can follow a disciplined procedure, usually while in the dark.

BACKFEEDING IS BY ELECTRICAL CODE ILLEGAL AND FROWNED UPON BY THE UTILITIES BECAUSE IT IS NOT FAILSAFE. IT IS NOT EXTREMELY DANGEROUS IF YOU DO IT CORRECTLY, BUT IS VERY PRONE TO ACCIDENT IF NOT FOLLOWED EXACTINGLY.

You need a 220 volt breaker installed in your panel, with a 220 receptacle positioned near where you want your generator usually on an outside wall. You can tell the electrician you'll be doing some welding. The dangerous part is that you need a 220v - 10 gauge extension with male plugs on each end. One goes into the generator the other into the wall outlet.

Now, the 220 breaker becomes you backup main breaker after the main is thrown off. Your panel is now energized and ready to feed any other circuit by selectively throwing the individual breakers.

I have written an emergency backup power procedure and placed it inside my panel box. It is as follows.

"Backup PowerUp Procedure"

1. Try to remember which lights and appliances were on in the house when the power went off and turn them OFF.

2. Throw Main Breaker to "OFF"

3. Turn "OFF" the 220v backup main power breaker

4. Turn "OFF" nonessential circuits. Anything you know you won't need, you can label them "NE" in red

5. Turn "OFF" Optional circuits. Those circuits you know you'll be using, label them "OPT" in blue

6. Unplug Driveway lights, Humidifier, and Air exchanger. These are units in my home that are plugged into my furnace and refrigerator circuits which need to be unplugged manually. Look for yours!

7. Bring Generator up to full speed -- 2 to 3 minute warmup to stabilize the voltage.

8. Plug extension cord into 220 volt wall receptacle

9. Plug extension cord into generator

10. Turn "ON" 220v backup circuit breaker Label this "Backup Main" in bold black letters

11. MAIN PANEL IS NOW ENERGIZED

12. Turn "ON" optional circuits as needed



The easiest way I've found is to turn off everything in your whole panel box, except the lights which are colored green. When the generator is running smooth, throw the backup main. Then pick among the optional circuits colored blue.

NOTES: These are specific to my house but illustrate how to choose among the optional circuits.

2. In order TO RUN WELLPUMP, leave the pump breaker "ON". Turn "OFF", both refrigerators, and furnace. Do NOT use washer, dryer, range or microwave.

3. In order TO RUN FURNACE, Turn "OFF" Wellpump, both Refrigerators, and do NOT use washer, dryer, microwave and range.

4. Label all your light circuits "LITES" in green and leave them on at the panel but off at the upstairs switches. This will allow you to go into any given room and just turn on the lights, generally one room at a time. Very convenient !!


"Power Down Procedure"

Use if generator runs out of gas while supplying house

1. Turn "OFF" optional circuits

2. Turn "OFF" the 220v backup main breaker

3. Refuel and restart generator until running smoothly.

4. Turn "ON" 220v backup breaker

5. Turn "ON" optional circuits as needed.


"Switching Back To Utility Power"

1. Stop generator

2. Unplug at generator

3. Unplug at wall receptacle

4. Throw Main Breaker to "ON"

5. Turn "ON" all breakers.


"OTHER INSIGHTS"

A double throw disconnect switch is a 3 position switch that has a top, middle and bottom position, which would be for "utility power", "off" and "Generator". This would be fail-safe if you were to throw it to utility it automatically cuts off the generator and visa versa.

Backfeeding allows the possibility of accidentally throwing the main while feeding into the backup line simultaneously. Bad News here..... We're talking potential for big explosion !!!!!!

The next consideration is an extension with male plugs on both ends. Again Potentially very unsafe. If left plugged into the wall outlet and the backup main is turned on, you have 220 volts on the end of an exposed plug. Be very careful not to let that happen.

I hope this is helpful to you all. It illustrates the fact that you really just can't go out to Wal-Mart and buy a generator and come home and plug it in and go, without some important preparation and considerations.

Frank

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USE-IT-ALL APPLE CORES, PEACH SKINS TOP

I make apple butter from just the peels and core of the apples, so peach jelly from the skins would not be too much of a stretch. Put the skins in a large pan, just cover with water. Bring to a boil. Boil it til the skins are really depleted looking, til the pulp is all off them and they are shriveled to almost nothing. Then strain them in a cheese cloth. Let them drip over night. Next day, throw away the skins and put the juice in a large pan. Bring to a boil again. Taste it. If it is not strong enough, boil it down a little. Keep tasting til it tastes right.

When it is like you want it to taste, add sugar according to the instructions on the pectin box. Then proceed as indicated on the pectin box recipe.

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UNDERGROUND HOUSE TOP

From: WSM311@aol.com

I homestead here in VT. My name is Wendy. Our growing season varies from 90-120 days. One summer we had a frost every two or three weeks!

I live in an underground house back in the woods. We built it ourselves using the $50 and Up Underground House book by Mike Oehler. The main house is 14x48ft, with a 12x48ft attached solar greenhouse and an 8x8 root cellar. We use a home-made composting toilet (5 gal bucket in a wooden cabinet with a vent pipe). We dump the full bucket into 55 gallon drums with covers. These rot for 2 years and become beautiful compost that we use to fertilize flowers and to put around the orchard trees. (Do not use in such a way that it would touch a food crop, e.g. not around your strawberries!)

There is 100 feet of black hose curled up on a greenhouse bench for hot water in the summer. In winter the water runs through a box on the woodstove. We took an old cast iron bathtub, coated the bottom with tar and sunk it into a bed of sand in the bathroom. This takes only a small amount of hot water to keep nice and warm. I developed a spring uphill from the house. It's gravity fed inside.

Wendy Martin, Peace and Carrots Farm VT

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GOATS MILK BABY FORMULA TOP

I have been told by midwifes that Goat milk is lacking in sufficient amounts of folic acid and iron. If you choose to use goat milk.....get a liquid iron supplement.

Goat's Milk Formula

2 c. raw certified goat's milk

1 cup distilled water

1 1/2 Tbs.. lactose sugar

1/8 tsp. cod liver oil, mint flavored, the Vitamin D helps the baby absorb the calcium and the mint aids in digestion

You can also add blackstrap molasses to add more vitamins.

When we lived in WA I ran a licensed daycare. Several of the children were on goats milk instead of formula....most recommend, raw and fresh from the goat...not the stuff you get at the grocery store.



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PLANTING IN LEAF MULCH TOP

I read this book not long ago about a man who owns a shredder, and instead of shredding Little Rock papers, he shreds leaves. And instead of merely using the shredded leaves for mulch, he uses them for his soil. That's right. He makes them about a foot deep and uses no dirt. He lets the leaves rot into a soil-like product. Each year he adds a new layer of leaves. He says he gets fantastic results because the moisture is retained very well by this method. He furthermore states that he gets no weeds, diseases, and/or bugs. He had a screen on top, to keep the leaves from blowing away. I think the idea has merit because the last thing you want in an emergency situation is a failed garden due to bugs or disease.

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MULCHING WITH HAY TOP

We have been mulching ALL garden beds with hay for approximately 3 years now. The hay we use is old and partly rotten, as it had been sitting on a neighboring farmers land, in bales, for some time.

This has been very successful in retaining moisture, stifling weeds and -dah dah - encouraging earthworms!

What we do is lay thick newspapers (not glossy prints) over the area for the bed, add manure of any kind (chicken is good - TURKEY is better!), or, if you don't have manure, (we have not always had chickens) - we use blood and bone, then we add the hay.

We lay the hay in 'biscuits' across the area, carefully overlapping each other, somewhat like a shingled roof. We break the biscuits up around existing plants.

So far - so good. Perhaps the seed is dead when we lay the hay? We have, in the past, used 'commercial', finely chopped hay for mulching. However, we have experienced weed seeds in this and prefer the plain, semi-rotted bales for this reason. Furthermore, it is far easier to spread in "biscuits."

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ACORNS & CATTAILS TOP



To save list band width please contact me about this off the list with the subject of acorns or cattails. I will post the results and a few URLs about using these plants then.

<>< John Goude ><> ham: KE6VUB

Yucaipa, CA 92399-5605

e-mail: nature@eee.org http://www.eee.org/bus/nature

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OUT OF PRINT BOOKS TOP

http://www.abebooks.com

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USING RAINWATER TOP

Rain is funneled from the roof into gutters and from there into a holding tank (a cistern). The water will keep best if it's underground (cool & out of the sun) -- even so, the first couple minutes of a rain should be channeled away from the tank so that the roof can be washed off, and clean water enter the tank. Filtration can take place right at your sink with a portable camp filter or a more elaborate (non electric!) system. Clothes washing and showers can be done without filtration, as long as the water smells okay and looks clear -- any water that touches food or your hands should go through the filter.

In our area, the best rainwater is spring and fall waters; summer water is considered pretty poor, easily goes moldy, and tastes bad -- something to do with the bacteria and heat. If you have reasonable rain during the cooler seasons, you can store excess water (chlorine bleach comes in handy) for the dry seasons.

If you store water in an underground tank, you'll need a simple hand-pump to draw it up -- they run around $50 here. Alternatively, you could just lower a (clean) bucket into the water by rope and haul it up.

Anyway, the system will work! You'll probably have more water available by this cistern system than you realize. Plus, it's relatively cheap to set up.

How to build a rain water filtering system.

http://www.baproducts.com/freefilt.htm



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WIND POWER FOR OFF-GRID ELECTRICITY TOP

Going completely solar is cost prohibitive, we found. We were quoted $75,000 to have a solar system that would keep us off the grid. =:-o

Wind seems to be the best bet...but it'll only work in certain areas of the country. Check out the wind map at http://www.nrel.gov/wind/usmaps.html --Wind Resource Database -- to see if you are in an area that is efficient for wind.

A great site to check out is http://www.worldpowertech.com/ World Power Technologies, Inc for more information on wind turbines. They sell one of the best...the Whisper. They also have lots of links on their resource page.

http://www.homepower.com/ Home Power Magazine, the hands-on journal of ...just did an article this month on how to pick a wind turbine. It's in Adobe (which I have successfully downloaded!!! YEAH!!!) and was very helpful.

It looks like we'll be able to set up a complete power system (wind, with solar as a backup for windless days) for around $7,000...and that will keep us off the grid.

bttt